Curse

curtman · Jul 06, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Es use spells to "summon" fire, water, earth, and air attacks or to "conjure" enchantments on their weapons. I do not see how they could not "summon" or "conjure" an element golem. Summoners use spells to summon a spirit of a given element. There is a clear linkage between the two, since they both use spells to do maniuplate and master elements. Granted in Tales, a pact must be made before a summoner can use summoning spells, but spells are used.

A summoner class lacks the depth GW classes have. There is a limited number of things which could be summoned. Light, Fire, Earth, Water, Dark, Air, and Lightning are the traditional summoner elements. It makes more sense, easier to implement, and is more reasonable to have the E get fire, earth, water, and air golem summoning, since the Elements are their specialty. It would be difficult to make enough skills to have a true summoning class, when comparing to the depth other classes have in GW.

draxynnic · Jul 06, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

One issue with having summoner as a special class is the question of what would they summon? Elemental beings would be stepping on Elementalist territory. Animals or nature spirits on Ranger territory. Undead on Necromancer (corporeal) or Ritualist (incorporeal) territory. This doesn't really leave much apart from angels or demons.

There's also a question of what role they would fill. We already have a minion master, in the Necro. One would have to be very careful at balancing to make a summoner class that doesn't completely overshadow the Necro MM while not being overshadowed in turn.

Lowly Peasant · Jul 06, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Well, the MM is there for the numbers. You put MoP or Barbs on a target with a MM and there will be plenty of extra damage going around, the thing is minions don't do a whole lot of damage unless you have plenty of them around. I mostly see them as a way to soak up the enemy casters Hexes and spells. With an elementalist having only 1 summon out at a time it could be made unique by letting it have it's own skills and damage potential.

The milk shake · Jul 06, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

they could have a smiting summon called
summon archangel
550 health
15-22 holy damage
2.0 second cooldown
can cast kirin wrath, symbol of wrath at (10...16) smiting prayers
When it dies, caster takes (70...30) holy damage and is knocked down

Tark Alkerk · Jul 06, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Heres my idea how they would work, Golems would primarly be melee with a back up Spell. They would last until they died and basically work like a pet. They cannot be healed.

Gift Of the Elements (Energy Storage) - 15, 2, 60
Enchantment. While maintaing this enchantment you are able to field one elemental golem. If this enchantment is stripped or removed the golem will die.

{Elite}Thunder Golem (Lightning Magic) - 25, 3, 45
Spell. Summon Thunder Golem at your location (Requires Gift Of the Elements). Thunder golems have 60 AL +30 vs Lightning Damage, 100...480 Health, and 30...65 Energy. In melee they deal 6-28 Lightning Damage (25% armor penetration, Attack rate 2.5), and at ranged they cast Lightning Orb (100% longer recharge time) with 10...16 Air Magic Attribute. When Thunder Golem dies, the original summoner takes 145....95 lightning damage (25% Armor Penetration).

{Elite} Flame Golem (Fire Magic) - 25, 3, 45
Spell. Summon Flame Golem at your location (Requires Gift Of the Elements). Flame Golems have 70 AL +30 vs Fire Damage, 100...480 Health, and 30...65 Energy. In melee they deal 15-28 Fire Damage (10% chance to cause burning for 3...5 seconds, Attack rate 2.5), and at ranged they cast Rodgort's Invocation with 8...16 Fire Magic Attribute. When Flame Golem dies, the original summoner suffers from burning for 5...3 seconds.

{Elite} Earth Golem (Earth Magic) - 25, 3, 45
Spell. Summon Earth Golem at your location (Requires Gift Of the Elements). Earth Golems have 90 AL +30 vs Earth Damage, 140...560 Health, and 30...65 Energy. In melee they deal 11-22 Earth Damage (Attack Rate of 2.7 seconds), and at ranged they cast Churning Earth with 10...16 Earth Magic Attribute. When Earth Golem dies, the original summoner suffers from 20...65 Earth Damage.

{Elite} Ice Golem (Water Magic) - 25, 3, 45
Spell. Summon Ice Golem at your location (Requires Gift Of the Elements). Ice Golems have 70 AL +30 vs Cold Damage, 100...480 Health, and 30...65 Energy. In melee they deal 7-17 Cold Damage (25% chance to attack twice, like daggers. Attack rate 1.3), and at ranged they cast Deep Freeze with 10...16 Water Magic Attribute. When Ice Golem dies, the original summoner moves 90% slower for 9....3 seconds.

personally i love this idea

it might actuallay make elementalists more popular again,
rather than just being people that drop meoter showers at intervals.
also there not overpowered in my opinion
because only eles can use them (althought there would neeed to be a line with "fails with 4 energy storage or less" for gift of the elements
and because there eltie it would mean that mantaining energy would be more diffcult.
and due to the enchanment rip
it makes them very vunrable.

The milk shake · Jul 06, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

yeah this would be awesome, ive kinda wanted ele summons for quite some time

gameshoes3003 · Jul 06, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Wow....
I like your ideas and all, but the ideas here I personally think make this Elemental Summon too strong.
There shouldn't be any healing for the summons, and only one out at a time.
They only use one skill that's not an elite or it'd be too cheap.
I really thought of this idea because Elementalists can't always defend themselves in some situations, not all, just some.
I like your ideas and supporting ideas, but let's try to make this a realistic thing where it cannot dominate everything.

gameshoes3003 · Jul 06, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Wow....
I like your ideas and all, but the ideas here I personally think make this Elemental Summon too strong.
There shouldn't be any healing for the summons, and only one out at a time.
They only use one skill that's not an elite or it'd be too cheap.
I really thought of this idea because Elementalists can't always defend themselves in some situations, not all, just some.
I like your ideas and supporting ideas, but let's try to make this a realistic thing where it cannot dominate everything.

gameshoes3003 · Jul 06, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Wow....
I like your ideas and all, but the ideas here I personally think make this Elemental Summon too strong.
There shouldn't be any healing for the summons, and only one out at a time.
They only use one skill that's not an elite or it'd be too cheap.
I really thought of this idea because Elementalists can't always defend themselves in some situations, not all, just some.
I like your ideas and supporting ideas, but let's try to make this a realistic thing where it cannot dominate everything.

curtman · Jul 07, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Agreed, since they do not require a corpse, there is no need to heal, because they can be recreated with energy alone. Only one should be active.

If they were able to cast one spell how about:
Lightning arrow or Lightning javelin for Air.
Flare or fire arrow for Fire.
Ward against melee for earth or stone daggers.
Ice spear or Ice Spikes for Water.

If they were just tanks, doing melee element damage would work well, if not better than casting. Just give air, fire, and water a conjure element skill, and earth ward against melee. Or they could just be ranged attackers which do element damage.

Some are going to reject this idea if they are given an offensive spell. If this is to successed, it might be wise to develop both a melee, ranged, and caster concepts, just incase ANet even decides to consider the idea or does not like one of the concepts.

Flesh Golems are not too powerful alone, but in a group of minions they are. I do not see how 1 Elemental Golem per Ele, with no healing potential, could threaten gameplay. If any thing, it would encourage more teamwork.

Sniper22 · Jul 07, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Ok, first thing, for those who think it isn't overpowered, it is. For one skill, u can create a mob that spams 2 skills over and over. And even if it does get balanced, i totally hate this idea. Why don't we make this game as close as possible to wow and all those other games... *sarcasm* and this is probably what will happen.

Guy: glf mm
Me: minion master here
Guy: N/E w/ earth summon?
Me: no N/Mo
Guy: glf mm

curtman · Jul 07, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Ok, first thing, for those who think it isn't overpowered, it is. For one skill, u can create a mob that spams 2 skills over and over. And even if it does get balanced, i totally hate this idea. Why don't we make this game as close as possible to wow and all those other games... *sarcasm* and this is probably what will happen.

Guy: glf mm
Me: minion master here
Guy: N/E w/ earth summon?
Me: no N/Mo
Guy: glf mm

Spam skills are overrated. Some guildies stopped using them, and they were more effective using AOE skills instead. They are better off using echo to get a skill back than spamming, it wastes energy which could be used for Meteor shower.

Besides, most Es would still focus on using Fire spells for AOE or using Shock skills for direct damage. The only people that would focus on the ele golems exclusively are people like Guy who have no clue what they were doing before it was introduced. It is not like the golem would make the elementalist equivalent of touch rangers, which is the cheapest thing in the game.

As mentioned, I am personally leaning towards the melee version or ranged of the ele golem, they appear to be more balanced and easier to implement into the game. A Flesh golem is not that hard to kill, it is the fiends that work with it which make them appear powerful. I do not think ANet would consider the caster version, since pets cannot use skills by themselves. The only way that would be possible would be weak armor and weak health. Ranged would be as durable as the Fiend, while the melee would be similar to the flesh golem, but both would do element damage instead of slashing or piercing.

I understand what you mean with the guy example Guy, Necros exist for 3 reasons: MM (N/Mo or N/Rt), Battery, curse and hex, and touch. Any one not using those four is either new to the game or some little kid, I can say from my experience those two groups of peopl are going to cause your group problems. Guy is probably currently using the N/W build running around with a hammer trying to tank while he is in the Sanctum Cay, Thunderhead, or desert missions, which I have seen people do on several occassions. Chances are Guy does not even know about MM, Battery,Touch, or how to use a necro. Kinda like how ppl play a W that is not a Mo secondary, whats the point, they can't tank effectively and might as well be another primary. I would not even consider letting a N in my group unless he is a secondary Mo, Rt, or Me, because the times I have been in a group with a N that was not a secondary mo, rt, or Me we rezed them after almost every mob.

Sniper, is the fact WOW has a golem for its warlock the reason you do not like the idea, is it fear of the fools like Guy making poor class choices, is it fear of a weak potential challenge to the MM, weaking the nuker and shock population, fear of change, or do you hate the Elementalist class? I am just curious, because "WOW has something like it" is a bad and weak arguement. That is the same as saying there should be no W/Mo (paladin), Necro, monk, spell caster, ranger (wow hunter), or any other GW class or build because other games have something like it.

Wow does sell MORE copies, so they must be doing something right, despite the fact gw is a way better game. People even pay monthly for that game, it only kept me enterained for 2 months. Even wow borrows ideas from other games, such as FF, everquest, diablo, and DND board game. There is nothing wrong with GW, WOW, or another game making their version of another's classes, because every game has/will do it. Mesmer is the only unique class in GW. Warriors(every game), casters(every game), necros(ff), assassins(prince of persia), rits(gw version of wow's shaman), monks(aka clerics and priests) are all not unque ideas. Besides, it would just show wow and the others their game is inferior to Guild Wars. The ele golem will not be the mighty thing my pal enjoys letting loose in Goldshire on wow, though it is hillarious seeing it.

Adding Elemental summoning would improve the marketing of GW to Tales, WOW, and FF players. More sales generates more revenue, which is good for Guild Wars. Also, I know people that play other online RPGs and single player RPGs which would consider GW if there was something like their beloved warlock or summoner in it, or even a mac version.

curtman · Jul 07, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Spam skills are overrated. Some guildies stopped using them, and they were more effective using AOE skills instead. They are better off using echo to get a skill back than spamming, it wastes energy which could be used for Meteor shower.

Besides, most Es would still focus on using Fire spells for AOE or using Shock skills for direct damage. The only people that would focus on the ele golems exclusively are people like Guy who have no clue what they were doing before it was introduced. It is not like the golem would make the elementalist equivalent of touch rangers, which is the cheapest thing in the game.

As mentioned, I am personally leaning towards the melee version or ranged of the ele golem, they appear to be more balanced and easier to implement into the game. A Flesh golem is not that hard to kill, it is the fiends that work with it which make them appear powerful. I do not think ANet would consider the caster version, since pets cannot use skills by themselves. The only way that would be possible would be weak armor and weak health. Ranged would be as durable as the Fiend, while the melee would be similar to the flesh golem, but both would do element damage instead of slashing or piercing.

I understand what you mean with the guy example Guy, Necros exist for 4 reasons: MM (N/Mo or N/Rt), Battery, curse and hex, and touch. Any one not using those four is either new to the game or some little kid, I can say from my experience those two groups of peopl are going to cause your group problems. Guy is probably currently using the N/W build running around with a hammer trying to tank while he is in the Sanctum Cay, Thunderhead, or desert missions, which I have seen people do on several occassions. Chances are Guy does not even know about MM, Battery,Touch, or how to use a necro. Kinda like how ppl play a W that is not a Mo secondary, whats the point, they can't tank effectively and might as well be another primary. I would not even consider letting a N in my group unless he is a secondary Mo, Rt, or Me, because the times I have been in a group with a N that was not a secondary mo, rt, or Me we rezed them after almost every mob.

Sniper, is the fact WOW has a golem for its warlock the reason you do not like the idea, is it fear of the fools like Guy making poor class choices, is it fear of a weak potential challenge to the MM, weaking the nuker and shock population, fear of change, or do you hate the Elementalist class? I am just curious, because "WOW has something like it" is a bad and weak arguement. That is the same as saying there should be no W/Mo (paladin), Necro, monk, spell caster, ranger (wow hunter), or any other GW class or build because other games have something like it.

Wow does sell MORE copies, despite the fact gw is a way better game. People even pay monthly for that game, it only kept me enterained for 2 months. Even wow borrows ideas from other games, such as FF, everquest, diablo, and DND board game. There is nothing wrong with GW, WOW, or another game making their version of another's classes, because every game has/will do it. Mesmer is the only unique class in GW. Warriors(every game), casters(every game), necros(ff), assassins(prince of persia), rits(gw version of wow's shaman), monks(aka clerics and priests) are all not unque ideas. Besides, it would just show wow and the others their game is inferior to Guild Wars. The ele golem will not be the mighty thing my pal enjoys letting loose in Goldshire on wow, though it is hillarious seeing it.

Adding Elemental summoning would improve the marketing of GW to Tales, WOW, and FF players. More sales generates more revenue, which is good for Guild Wars.

Tristan Taylor · Jul 07, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I asked Gaile about something like this quite some time ago, I was intending to ask about Elementalist Elementals, and Mesmer Familiars, but forgot what the Mesmer "pet" would be called.

BahamutKaiser · Jul 07, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

The "Summon" and "Conjure" spells that Elementist have are just unique ways to saying cast and enchant, which is just another way of saying skill activation under the pretense of a spell skill.

An elaborate skill name doesn't classify Elementist as a class who can use some sort of familiar. The classes skill types and abilities are quite obvious, and anything that has to do with creating/Summoning/conjuring or any other means of creating some elemental creature to fight alongside Elementist is not one of the classes capabilities. Furthermore, giving elementist knock off versions of summoned creatures just limits the creation of a real summoning class with dedicated summoning features that are actually effective.

Recognition doesn't need to be unanimous, the elementists class isn't ment to use these sorts of skills, and will be lucky to get new kinds of AoE and DoT effects at best, Anet woln't give elementist summoned creatures because of the ability diversity between classes, which will be perserved. And even if they did make something simular to this for elementist, it would likely be very limited because of elementists other capabilities.

I would love for the exsisting classes to get some alternate capabilities and skill types in the future, that way they do not get overly repetative to play, but trying to branch classes into abilities which belong in other classes, or a new class isn't a good idea.

Rogmar · Jul 07, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Taylor

I asked Gaile about something like this quite some time ago, I was intending to ask about Elementalist Elementals, and Mesmer Familiars, but forgot what the Mesmer "pet" would be called.

Because we all know Gaile is the sole body of A-net... Seriously, there are things that that Gaile has been wrong about, none that I can recall at the moment, and as many know, she is biased toward Ranger pets. She possibly could have been confused by the question as you asked for Mesmer "pets". She's only PR, not the developing team...

gamecube187 · Jul 08, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

/signed as long as they aren't overpowered, or too weak. I think, if done right, they would fit in perfectly! I like the idea!

frojack · Jul 08, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Great idea! So when do we get them?

In all seriousness, these creatures must not be overpowered at all. Plus they would need distinction from the other familiars already present in the game. To do this I think removing any melee abilty completely, and allowing them to only cast 2 spells would work nicely.

example...

Earth:
Ward against melee, Crystal Wave or Stoning. (since earth is about defence and armour ignoring damage)

Air:
Shock, Shock arrow (Air is generally armour penetration and knockdown)

Water:
Ice Spikes, Ice Spear (Water is mainly about adding the slow hex so...)

Fire:
Flame Burst, Fireball (since Fire is primarily attack, strong attack spells)

If these creatures cast these spells with a frequency similar to a flesh golem's attack, It wouldn't be too bad. Plus the thing about only being able to cast spells would put them at a disadvantage and make them vunerable to interruption and e-denial.
They would still probably require hefty balancing. I mean, what if a group of 8 eles were running around with 8 golems? 16 fireballs going off at the same time would be over-powered. Worse still 16 Crystal Wave's (though the need for melee range could make this point mute).

Edit: I suppose the casting could be randomised and suffiently staggered, so you could go in 'expecting' that amazing spike. In the case of earth you could run in for that Crystal spike but your buddy drops a ward instead

.

with some work, /signed

chikorita23 · Jul 16, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Maybe instead of conjure elemental golems. Ele should give the ability to conjure elemental stationary orbs? That would be another fun way to do AoE.

Such as Water Elemental Orb, and enemies within Water Elemental Orb become snared or taking cold dmg each second.

rong626 · Jul 16, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Lets Make This Golems Only Able 1 To Summon By Each Ele